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Anonymous
(Unregistered)
04/04/03 01:03 PM
138.88.161.111
Re: The Demian-SteppenWolf-Siddharta connection ... new [re: Anonymous]Reply to this post

And by the way who are you to judge other people?
(reply to the last email)




Lex
(stranger )
04/09/03 07:07 PM
152.163.188.165
Re: The Demian-SteppenWolf-Siddharta connection ... new [re: Anonymous]Reply to this post

Thanks for bringing attention to the ridiculous/judgemental post that was placed in this forum ...

I know we all have different opinions, and I don't expect all Hesse fans to be alike ... but when a literature forum that should be a tool for learning becomes tainted by lack of respect, I'm left feeling a bit sad and quite disappointed.

Hazem: thanks for being true to yourself and posting material that clearly shines with passionate thought. It takes a brave man to speak/write with cause, and weak man to attack without reason...



Anonymous
(Unregistered)
06/23/03 11:42 AM
66.28.255.109
Re: The Demian-SteppenWolf-Siddharta connection ... [re: Lex]Reply to this post

Lex: well said. I agree.
Anon. : please come down off your high horse. have you ever wondered? or wandered? have you ever felt insecurties? have you trembled? do YOU really understand? are you really free of ignorance? if we can learn anything from Hesse through Emil Sinclair, we should learn that all thoughts and actions, even your rant, is divine in nature. coming from the same place, energy, whatever. Abraxas is everywhere, in everything. scratch that, Abraxas IS.



Queequeg
(stranger )
06/23/03 04:30 PM
136.160.157.79
Re: The Demian-SteppenWolf-Siddharta connection ... [re: Anonymous]Reply to this post

Here's a small suggestion for all of us forum fans. Reading the posts, the 'anonymouses' tend to get confusing. Maybe picking aliases will help to make things clearer



dylanfan
(stranger )
06/25/03 10:09 AM
204.248.54.244
Re: The Demian-SteppenWolf-Siddharta connection ... [re: Queequeg]Reply to this post

I think that Hess has been very influential for other artists and that his "searching" is mirrored in the works of others, particularly Dylan:

http://discussions.bobdylan.com/thread.jsp?forum=16&thread=5355&start=0&msRange=100



Lex
(stranger )
06/26/03 11:59 AM
152.163.252.101
Re: The Demian-SteppenWolf-Siddharta connection ... new [re: dylanfan]Reply to this post

Thank you so much for providing this link. I have read through most of the threads, and have been overwhelmingly stimulated by such interesting thoughts!

I would have never compared the two artists, but after reading through the posts I'm starting to see a whole new dimension to my perception of Hesse, and Dylan for that matter ... thanks again!



dylanfan
(stranger )
07/09/03 02:09 PM
204.248.54.242
Re: The Demian-SteppenWolf-Siddharta connection ... [re: Lex]Reply to this post

Lex,

My pleasure! I spent a lot of time developing that thread, and I'm very pleased that you found it interesting! I posted another one on Dylan and Oscar Wilde, but that's a little off the topic here!

C. Dunn



Bob
(Unregistered)
07/10/03 05:26 AM
148.183.241.23
Re: The Demian-SteppenWolf-Siddharta connection ... [re: dylanfan]Reply to this post

interestingly enough, hesse himself once explained what his theme was. apparently, it is not widely known, so readers often find themselves unable to precisely describe what it is that seems to unite all of his stories.

i've done some writing on the 'hessian transformation' (as i first heard it called, so i'll just include that here. however, the writing makes some references to a large philosophical system that the hessian transformation fits into. for the sake of this thread, just ignore that stuff. if anyone is interested, the hessian transformation is precisely joseph campbell's 'monomyth' concept (which he lays out in full detail in his -great- book 'The hero with a thousand faces. read it)

hopefully, this makes sense~

Herman Hesse proposed that characters in novels follow a recognizable pattern of transformation throughout the story. This pattern begins with complete innocence, where the character exists in a state of simplicity, ignorance, and commonly some sort of Eden-like joy. Some transformative action serves to knock the character out of this unified world, opening the characterçs eyes to the true nature of reality around them. They are booted out of the garden of Eden and fall into a harsh and unforgiving world. This transformation comes as a sort of awakening of the understanding, the mind is released from the simple and orderly world in which it had dwelled and shown the vast depths of the world that surrounds this old paradise. In this can be seen the metaphorical ‚fall from graceç and the corresponding sense of being adrift. For it is the new world, the one much larger and so much less comprehensible, that the character now seeks to find meaning in. But the old methods of innocence no longer work, and the character must redefine their very understanding of themselves as they try to come to terms with this new existence. Everything is seen in a new light and must be judged using new methods, for the old have simply ceased to have meaning in this different world. This state is strongly antithetical to the initial state of innocence, and is marked by sorrow and suffering where the other was marked by joy. The meaning and wholesomeness of the first falls to the confusion and disconnectedness of the second. From the second phase, the transformation can take two paths. First, the character can reach the final stage of ascention, or he/she can fail to do so. In other words, ascention or death. Out of the sorrow and separation of the second phase, the character may find themselves and in doing so come to understand the world. In doing this, the character returns to the initial state that they were in, but it is now at a higher level, for it encompasses the whole world. Where it once covered a small, singular world, now the characterçs understanding reaches out to grasp the whole world with all of itçs new distinctions and infinite potentialities. Through another transformative act, this formerly piece-meal understanding of the world is brought together into a meaningful unity, returning the character to a meaningful existence- but on a fundamentally higher level now. If this process of ascention is not successful, the character is doomed to remain in the state of ‚the fallç, being unable to return to the original state of grace. Once the unity of the original state is broken by the first transformative act, it is impossible for that vision to be forgotten by the character. Like wanderlust, the character cannot escape this ever-calling compulsion to a greater realization of the self. Because of this, the character is caught in the second stage of suffering until they have either ascended or died trying.




rosemez
(stranger )
07/11/03 05:51 PM
206.24.48.67
Re: The Demian-SteppenWolf-Siddharta connection ... new [re: Bob]Reply to this post

This is actually well known as the Bildungsroman, or a "novel of education," similar to the hero's cycle but essentially romantic (and masculine).

In her introduction to Chopin's "The Awakening", Deborah Williams describes the Bildungsroman as: "...this awakening process, the gradual process of coming to know and understand the world. In a Bildungsroman, the hero begins as an innocent and through a crisis and/or series of adventures achieves maturity and independence. Often this process is described as the movement from innocence to experience, from youth to age...".

The magic lies in Hesse's storytelling and crafty manipulation of the form, albeit personal, vulnerable, and honest. He has never really been experimental with form, usually borrowing from a rich history in Classical/Romantic literature. His stories seem to be the same story because they are the very same story. Through his novels, Hesse becomes the morphing magician, the idol of his childhood. This is the essence of his prose writing.

dylanfan
(stranger )
07/15/03 03:01 PM
204.248.54.242
Re: The Demian-SteppenWolf-Siddharta connection ... new [re: rosemez]Reply to this post

Bob and rosemez,

Great posts, great insights! Thanks.




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