well , frankly i m not a big reader , but after reading demian ( i bought the book cause the picture ressembled to me : o ) and identifying with one of it characters i wanted to know everythin about hesse and his novels . That was a week or 2 ago , and till now i read demian , steppenwolf and siddharta ....
while reading them i noticed that the 3 books have a lot of similarity , i m not saying that hesse had a lack of creativity , but that the message passed in these 3 novels is the same .
In demian as in steppenwolf as in siddharta , hesse encourages us to discover oursleves and our many faces , that we should learn from others but not be dependent of them , that we should always experiment new stuff .. i could go deeper and farther in my description of the connection , but i m out of time , if anyone think the same or have an opinion why not discussin
Hazem

Demian is the best booki've ever read, i think it's a great story

what i meant by the topic ( excuse me for my poor english ) is that there s a lot of similarities in these 3 books , it s the main idea but seen from different prospective ......

I too had a similar thought. Add in Narcissus and Goldmund to your interconnected philosophy ... there's something to further investigate ...

I think three books share a common notion of what it is like to be an outsider whilst seeking community with some spiritual unknown, a thing only felt as an instinct. All three are profound spiritual insights which in the end tie in because they originate from a cohesive and searching ideology. There are moments when reading them one feels as thought ones own life were being described, whilst they are also detached and personal to the writer. All three seek to balance our multifarious personalities.

of course, i don.t know you and apparently it would seem that you definitly do not consider a possiblility that i exist ...
so in my book, this is a good start: total obilivious contact.
in any case, i have originally read demain and steppenwolf, two book that contain the benefit of my existence on this mortal coil... instantly, as most do, i feel deeply lethargic and even more severly in love with the concepts of SELF that hesse contains. now, though, i have began reading a series of works from hesse, ranging from 1906 to 1950(or so) and have realized, as you have, the simularity between hesse's works... however i believe that hesse wrote not, as you said, with lack of creativity, but posed his words in parallel to his life and philosphy... naturally it is assumed that any writer parodies his life to his works and vice versa, yet hesse's works refuse the form of parody. his works though synomous to his life in many ways, actually show what thoughts and ideas he, himself grappled with... hesse, yes, is extraordinary, and simularities will inevitably be found, but i believe in my firend's diagnosis....
" hess's works in singular are meant to be spectacular, not only to the avid reader, but also to the soul of every autonomious human... but to revel in his genious, one must undertake the whole of his works in order to prepare one's self to the philosphy that hesse spent his life preparing for and recieving..." to read hesse is to read a soul.... one of many... to read hesse's works in complete form... one deals not with hesse's ideal SELF but the growth and stability that was the living hesse. throughout his works, indeed, his theme followed almost unaltered.... yet we know humans change like seasons... we thrive in spring, breathing new-born blossoms and interpreting the chirps of passing birds, we grow lush and luminious in summer protraying every bit of photosynthesis... every bit self made nurishment .... fall allows a harvest of the previous gains.... we pluck the autonomy from our minds, reap the ideas and understanding and beauty that incased us during the warm months, and winter stews in reflection, remembrance, and retraced steps long rued and heartily looked forward to, again and renewed as soon as the weather and soul permits...
hesse shall be no different than that ...
hesse is human .... and his books example his life...
his life ... is the theme that you find so similiar in the three aforementioned books....
shinikaru
mlemieux1@comcast.net

I didnt mean by anyway to underestimate Hesse s creativity or work , i only thought that this connection might be a interesting way to explore Hesse s mind , i dunno , if we read the books in the right chronology , we might see how Hesse s point of view on a certain point changed .......... Even though there s a common line of thoughts in his books , each and everyone of the four i read ( demian , steppenwolf, siddharta , le jeu de perle de verres ) are very interesting and gives new stuff and a new way to see stuff ........
i m startin to read hesse s work with more attention and take note to see the evolution of the thought and his way to see stuff , once i ll finish i ll post my stuff up and read your opinions with interest

I agree, Hesse depicts his struggle through the development of a life philosophy, a living force which he tries to unite with. I don't think the similarities end with only one theme, as you put it "his life". The books are not just his life. We already know that he is telling his own life story. He opens in the prologue of 'Demain' stating that his story is most important to him because it is his story, his history, the way he has chronologically reconstructed his life.
More than this; Hesse's ideas are never giving any final 'truth', he states that this is my perception and leaves the ideas with the reader to think for themselves. This is a common theme of his books.
He goes further than this, in 'Demain' he links anthropology, Darwinism, Freud's concept of the ego and the id, pagan religion, bhuddhism, christianity, 'ubermensch' and the discovery of the self. In Siddhartha he makes himslef an Indian world to give his interpretation of the learnings of that culture. Hesse reworks old stories and tells them to his modern readers, whom he hopes will heed his message and think for themselves. The bird struggles out of the egg.
He does all this in the 'stranger at the edge of town' framework. The stranger wants not to be alone, yet realises that conformity would compromise his personal freedom and so struggles to find a community of his own.
He has little to say about the mindless drones out there and says enough in the brevity of references to them. Demain is the presager of a new dawn for mankind he spreads the idea, and after he is gone there is only the word left to spread. In the hope that one day the horror is bearable.

You do not have to read all his books to get the complete picture, what is the complete picture? Do you know it? The only person who could say would be Hesse himself and he's not here. Hesse gives a complete picture in each book he writes, he gives a fully formed idea which can stand on its own, there is no cerial thing going on here, I mean there is no 'Demain part 2' Thank God.
There is a common theme present and part of this draws on previous sentiments from another book. Like Haller mentions a sheltered upbrinking in Steppenwolf, this harks back to Sinclair's home in 'Demian'.
I would be interested to read your thoughts on this...

well hazen you're opinions are rubbish because they are lacking any knowledge about yourself, you seem to talk without really knowing what you are saying, it is just people like you who hesse hated so much, the ones whi think they are clever and just talk alot but actuallt say nothing, like many people. so carry on, in blissful ignorance because you will just never know. will you?

And by the way who are you to judge other people?
(reply to the last email)

Thanks for bringing attention to the ridiculous/judgemental post that was placed in this forum ...

I know we all have different opinions, and I don't expect all Hesse fans to be alike ... but when a literature forum that should be a tool for learning becomes tainted by lack of respect, I'm left feeling a bit sad and quite disappointed.

Hazem: thanks for being true to yourself and posting material that clearly shines with passionate thought. It takes a brave man to speak/write with cause, and weak man to attack without reason...

Lex: well said. I agree.
Anon. : please come down off your high horse. have you ever wondered? or wandered? have you ever felt insecurties? have you trembled? do YOU really understand? are you really free of ignorance? if we can learn anything from Hesse through Emil Sinclair, we should learn that all thoughts and actions, even your rant, is divine in nature. coming from the same place, energy, whatever. Abraxas is everywhere, in everything. scratch that, Abraxas IS.

Here's a small suggestion for all of us forum fans. Reading the posts, the 'anonymouses' tend to get confusing. Maybe picking aliases will help to make things clearer

I think that Hess has been very influential for other artists and that his "searching" is mirrored in the works of others, particularly Dylan:

http://discussions.bobdylan.com/thread.jsp?forum=16&thread=5355&start=0&msRange=100

Thank you so much for providing this link. I have read through most of the threads, and have been overwhelmingly stimulated by such interesting thoughts!

I would have never compared the two artists, but after reading through the posts I'm starting to see a whole new dimension to my perception of Hesse, and Dylan for that matter ... thanks again!

Lex,

My pleasure! I spent a lot of time developing that thread, and I'm very pleased that you found it interesting! I posted another one on Dylan and Oscar Wilde, but that's a little off the topic here!

C. Dunn

interestingly enough, hesse himself once explained what his theme was. apparently, it is not widely known, so readers often find themselves unable to precisely describe what it is that seems to unite all of his stories.

i've done some writing on the 'hessian transformation' (as i first heard it called, so i'll just include that here. however, the writing makes some references to a large philosophical system that the hessian transformation fits into. for the sake of this thread, just ignore that stuff. if anyone is interested, the hessian transformation is precisely joseph campbell's 'monomyth' concept (which he lays out in full detail in his -great- book 'The hero with a thousand faces. read it)

hopefully, this makes sense~

Herman Hesse proposed that characters in novels follow a recognizable pattern of transformation throughout the story. This pattern begins with complete innocence, where the character exists in a state of simplicity, ignorance, and commonly some sort of Eden-like joy. Some transformative action serves to knock the character out of this unified world, opening the characterçs eyes to the true nature of reality around them. They are booted out of the garden of Eden and fall into a harsh and unforgiving world. This transformation comes as a sort of awakening of the understanding, the mind is released from the simple and orderly world in which it had dwelled and shown the vast depths of the world that surrounds this old paradise. In this can be seen the metaphorical ‚fall from graceç and the corresponding sense of being adrift. For it is the new world, the one much larger and so much less comprehensible, that the character now seeks to find meaning in. But the old methods of innocence no longer work, and the character must redefine their very understanding of themselves as they try to come to terms with this new existence. Everything is seen in a new light and must be judged using new methods, for the old have simply ceased to have meaning in this different world. This state is strongly antithetical to the initial state of innocence, and is marked by sorrow and suffering where the other was marked by joy. The meaning and wholesomeness of the first falls to the confusion and disconnectedness of the second. From the second phase, the transformation can take two paths. First, the character can reach the final stage of ascention, or he/she can fail to do so. In other words, ascention or death. Out of the sorrow and separation of the second phase, the character may find themselves and in doing so come to understand the world. In doing this, the character returns to the initial state that they were in, but it is now at a higher level, for it encompasses the whole world. Where it once covered a small, singular world, now the characterçs understanding reaches out to grasp the whole world with all of itçs new distinctions and infinite potentialities. Through another transformative act, this formerly piece-meal understanding of the world is brought together into a meaningful unity, returning the character to a meaningful existence- but on a fundamentally higher level now. If this process of ascention is not successful, the character is doomed to remain in the state of ‚the fallç, being unable to return to the original state of grace. Once the unity of the original state is broken by the first transformative act, it is impossible for that vision to be forgotten by the character. Like wanderlust, the character cannot escape this ever-calling compulsion to a greater realization of the self. Because of this, the character is caught in the second stage of suffering until they have either ascended or died trying.

This is actually well known as the Bildungsroman, or a "novel of education," similar to the hero's cycle but essentially romantic (and masculine).

In her introduction to Chopin's "The Awakening", Deborah Williams describes the Bildungsroman as: "...this awakening process, the gradual process of coming to know and understand the world. In a Bildungsroman, the hero begins as an innocent and through a crisis and/or series of adventures achieves maturity and independence. Often this process is described as the movement from innocence to experience, from youth to age...".

The magic lies in Hesse's storytelling and crafty manipulation of the form, albeit personal, vulnerable, and honest. He has never really been experimental with form, usually borrowing from a rich history in Classical/Romantic literature. His stories seem to be the same story because they are the very same story. Through his novels, Hesse becomes the morphing magician, the idol of his childhood. This is the essence of his prose writing.

Bob and rosemez,

Great posts, great insights! Thanks.

I've read nearly all of Hesse's work, seen the two movies (Siddhartha & Steppenwolf) and certainly find that most of his novels are autobiographical but interesting on their own. I've read Siddhartha every year since 1978 and find something new yearly. The diverse translations even add something to the reading. Yes, Hesse is about looking into yourself, but then, other authors have other perspectives. I find Hesse to be one that makes me think. The early novels are easier and less complex than the latter. By the time he got to the Glass Bead Game it took me years to work my way up to reading that novel and found it amazing.

I am a French student and I need to read Demian very soon in German, but the translation in French does not exist: CAN SOMEONE SUMMARIZE VERY QUICKLY THE BOOK FOR ME OR HELP TO FIND A SUMMARY SOMEWHERE ?

www.amazon.fr lists "Demian" under livres en francais.

Dear fellow Hesse Machines,
I'm a recovered Hesse addict. At the end of every Hesse novel, my body convusled, I couldn't breath, let alone concentrate on the novel that had just been tatooed into my pysche. I would blackout and awake in bookstores, panting, searching for Hesse, screaming at the clerk when no new Hesse novel sat on the shelf waiting for me. From bookstore to bookstore, I ran in a frenzy untilI I was forced to order a new book which took two weeks to be delivered. Drugs and alcohol only made my Hesse addiction worse. If Hermann's grave had been in my town, I would have dug it up and feasted on the rotten mostly decomposed corpse. If I would have became ill, vomited, and expelled the waste from every orface I would have re-ingested the flesh of Herr Hermann until my body aborbed it completely.
Hermann, in his old age, was once at Spa when a fellow Spa goer recognized him and asked questions concerning Hermann's early novels. Hermann's response was something like this (not exact quote, forgive my arrogance) 'Well Sir, I'm afraid you do not exist. You exist on paper but ..." ( I'm sorry, I can't bring myself to continue for I feel he was speaking to me)
We must understand, Hermann's novels are not printed on paper! There is no meaning in any of his books. Hermann's Novel's are simply broken mirrors and swampy ponds, only from the right angle or certain moments of the day can we see ourselves.

If you are not teasing us, (we who are truly Hesse addicts, I mean,) you said that brilliantly and I feel the same way.
This thread is marked by some very good writers, (except for the mean one, of course.)