Hello everyone
just a question.
According what I Know of the Buddhism Gotama and Siddhartha are supposed to be the same persons. Can anyone tell me why they are different in the Hesse's Novel?
Thank you very much.

Fred--

I just read Siddhartha and I'm not sure about the answer to your question, but I am positive that Siddhartha Gotama was the Buddha's real name.

The way I see it, is that it just so happens that Hesse's character in the novel is named Siddartha, and that he meets the Buddha, who is also named Siddartha, but is addresed by the last name of Gotama. They are not the same person, that is true, they just have the same name in the novel.

According to Thomas Mann, (aproximatively!), Hesse created a character (Siddhartha) more authentical than Buddha himself - which, I suppose, means that Hesse oriented his work to a character as close as possible to the esencial nature of Buddha, without trying to make some kind of biography for a certain religious / hystorical person (Buddha = Siddhartha Gautama from Sakya family). That's why it is less important the precise usage of the names .

in the book gotoma and sidhartha both have the same knowledge but have learned it in a different way and sidhartha does not preach his. about him bien the same person as gotoma i don't know my knowledge of budhism is not that extended.

yeah, i thought hesse was trying to make the point that there is potentially more than the one 'archetypal' siddartha

It is the best in the novel.

What Hesse did was to use a few elements of the historical real Buddha as well as his own additional touches as the basis for creating his fictional character Siddhartha. The novel's Gotama is closer to the nature of the real Buddha. Basically, he took the role of Buddha as the world knows and kind of split it in two to create his Siddhartha and his Gotama. Hope this helps.

Actually, I think you are just confusing names, as Buddha's full name was Siddharta Gautama Buddha, but Hesse's fictional character is simply named Siddharta. I believe the distinction between them is rather clear; in fact they actually meet and have a conversation in the book, during which it becomes very clear that Siddharta respects Buddha and considers him a holy man, yet does not accept his teachings. Of course, it is very interesting how their lives seem to be very similar, especially their choice to lead a moderate life, after searching happiness in extreme forms of hedonism or ascese.

Yes, Gautama Buddha's original name was indeed Siddhartha. But, in the book, Hesse's attempt may have been to show us that Siddhartha, the character, who goes in search of truth and the Gotama he meets are the two sides of the same coin. (alter ego)...

i think that both of gotama and siddharta represent the concept of illumination , wich could be claimed in many ways , i think that hesse used those 2 names in order to show the difference of pathes , and to say that each person should repsect the other point of view , and the other ways of seeing stuff .... and thus life is a libre arbitre where you experiment ,and it s the choices that yuo make that will guide you to your goal , there s no WAY to arrive there , each person should addapt himself to his situation adn to the goal he s seeking in order to get there
i just want you people to excuse me for my poor english , but i think that my idea is clear

Buddha , before attaining enlightment was known as Siddharta. Buddha is not a name but a state of Nirvana. Thus siddharta in this book only symbolises a character .

yes in the book, they are 2 people. this is intentional I believe because in Budhism, there is the self that simply experiences and the self that knows of the experience. The book explores this by splitting up the two into seperate characters.

this theme is also present in Narcissis and Goldmund

You hit the nail on the head - "Novel".

I am a high school student, and from my religion class studies i can tell you that yes, Siddhartha Gautama (only one among the many spelling versions) is the same person as the Buddha. According to the myth, Siddhartha Gautama was born as a son to a military ruler of an Indian region. The priests/oracles/or just wise men, have told the father that his son is predestined to either be the ruler of the world, or its saviour. The king did all in his power to insure that Siddhartha does not astray from his perspective future as the ruler of the world, and therefore isolated him within the castle from all of the markings of suffering in life (decrepitude, sickness, death and a fourth one - those are known as the four passing sites). Any how, where was I. Oh yes,Siddhartha even got married and had a son. But during one of his outside of the castle strides through the city, the father's servants failed to succesfully realize their mission of hiding the old and the sick away from Siddhartha's itinerery, and he finally faced his destiny of encoutering the four passing sites , as already mentioned. Then he realized that life is not as perfect as he was brought up to belive. He joined the ascetic monks, and so on, and finally, after a couple of days spent in deep mediational trans, he "awakened" into Nirvana (the state of eternal bliss, being and awareness)....you do know that Buddha means" the awakened one"?
To try to answer to your main question : Why does Hesse makes those two aspects of Buddha's life into two separate characters? , I would have to recall the explanation that my teacher gave to me. The sad thing is that the only thing i can remember about it, is that it was a rather satisfactory and substantiated explanation. I'll ask about it on monday and let you know, if you're still ionterested.
Also, for my English class , i am about to read "Narcisus and Goldmund", so I'll report on that too... : - )

Gotama Siddhartha was the Budda's full name before he became the Buddha. The Siddhartha of the book is a different person altogether.

Thankyou for the information that you do not have, but hopefully will receive. Should I hold my breath O wise one.

I think that one of Hesse's possible intentions in giving the main character the same name as the Buddha was to illustrate one of the themes of the novel; that knowledge or enlightenment cannot be gained by following another, or even by learning from them, but only by personal encounter and experience. Thus, when Siddhartha and Buddha have their conversation, Siddhartha declines to follow the Buddha despite his high regard for him. The point is, that Siddhartha is the Buddha, but he is his own Buddha, not merely a follower of another.

sidartha is the his giving name and buddha is after he reach enlightenment.

is very simple indee , sidhartha is a metaphore of buddha's life because the buddha is nothing but sidhartha , the gotama that everyone looked for in the book existed only in hesse character and perhaps thats also very interesting because it brings out the question of why the name of the budhha was used in this book , perhaps is was only meant to be a reference of what really hesse wanted to tell us . maybe hesse himself was the buddha , of course all of this is just a supposition , realitywise is , they just just happen to have the same name but differernt last name .

hello everyone , i beleive that back in those days there were many who felt awoken from the buddha's word and thought they were the next buddhas themselves its no surprise that hesse character also did this , maybe hesse created this character to define the buddha that was awaking inside himself and for him there was no other appropiate name for the character rather than siddhartha and that is why he named it .This two siddharthas are different in looks and at some point in the story they meet eachother , the achiever and the one that has yet to achieve . the last one was hesse character when he encountered the buddhas in the story he was already in the path to enlightment and seeing the buddha and asking him questions was of no longer of interest for him.

I have just read Siddhartha and have come across the problem that i don't have a clue about buddhism or any religion that might help me understand this book. I'm going to have to discuss this book in class and I was wondering if someone could break it down for me and help me understand the book and what it's all about--even if it's just your opinion of the book-that would help. Please, if you could just summarize what you think it is about and the whole thing about the names? please help me...thanks.

i am the buddha
everything you people have said is nonsense

~ b.

if your were the buddha then i must say the need for writing in this forum is totally obsolete and nonsense as well.

I believe it would be a mistake to think that Hesse didn't intentionally chose to name his characters as he did. The existence of what the reader perceives to be two different characters is meant to show that they are in fact one and the same (or "two sides to the same coin" as someone wrote earlier). That is to say that they are two beings separated by the physical world but actually are part of something much more universal in nature; the idea that we are all of one spirit and one mind. We can seek and find answers within ourselves but also, more importantly, we can seek and find even more answers within each other. That is a central tenet of Buddhism. Every living being on this planet is privy to a portion of the universal energy that is life and existence. I think that Hesse simply took this idea and implemented it in a very creative and thought provoking way. He used the very founder of Buddhist thought in his illustration of this belief in order to show not only the true universality of all living things but also to show that our fellow beings may provide only a portion of what we seek. After speaking with the Buddha and listening intently to him Siddhartha shows his genuine respect and admiration for the man but then proceeds to launch into a profound and concise critique of the very concept of teaching, specifically that of a spiritual nature. By doing so, Siddhartha acknowledges the importance of men like the Buddha but at the same time recognizes the absolutely vital role that self searching and introspection plays in the path to enlightenment and self-realization. He acknowledges that only through living and not just simply following can a person understand him or herself. This is exemplified in the course that Siddhartha's life then proceeds down. He becomes a seeker of pleasure both of the sensual and materialistic kinds and finds himself on the banks of a river after many years of living, learning, loving, and suffering. It is only then that he reaches a conclusion about himself and becomes truly aware of lifes meaning. It is the confluence of experience, knowledge, and natures profound simplicity (i.e. the river) that bring about this event in his life. Every thing flows together, much like the river, and seems at once to be everything and nothing, many things and one thing. I would like to know what anyone else thinks about this.

The theme of dual parts of one's personality or character is evident not only in this Hesse novel, but many of his novels: "Beneath the Wheel", "Demain", and "Steppenwolf". I'd be interested in discussing the theme of duality that runs throughout his writing. That dark/light, good/evil, materialism/simplicity, higher truth/every day reality, enlightened/not enlightened that seems to me a consistent and constant theme. Has anyone else seen this trend?

If you look at the teachings of Buddha you will notice one strong central thread - That each person has to experience nirvana by himself and this cannot be really taught through a preceptor.There is even one school of Buddhist taught (whose influence is also seen in Zen ) that does not believe in texts or formal teaching.They believe that the seeker is a student of life.This is what I understood when he uses the expression , "Song of the river" near the end of the book and his interactions with the old ferryman.

Hesse has used this underlying idea and probably skilfully combined it with the concept of duality that was referred to earlier in this thread.

1. Gautama was the clan name of the Buddha, hence the name of Sakyamuni Buddha.

2. Prince Sidhartha was the name of the Buddha before his renunciation of the world.

One theory: Hesse is copying Nietsche in Zarathustra, naming the character after the founder of Zoroastrianism. Another theory, with this naming, Hesse is strenghtening the idea that the realisations attained by Siddhartha is just as valid as those by the Buddha.

gotama is siddhartha's second name